Keeping Your Family Safe Online - 3 Cyber Safety Tips From A Cybermum

MumsDelivery caught up with Alex Merton-McCann, who is Consumer Online Safety Expert at McAfee and “Cybermum” for the company. Alex shares some tips for how to tackle online safety with your kids and we touched on some of the most common scams happening in Australia. Listen to the interview with Alex below, read on for Alex’s top 3 cyber safety tips, or go to the bottom of this post for the podcast transcript:

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Table of Contents

3 Cyber Safety Tips from Cybermum, Alex Merton-McCann

1. Start with a ‘digital spring clean’ of the home

As spring and the seasonal motivation to tidy approaches, it is a great time to introduce the idea of ‘digital spring cleaning’ to the family, which can be done in a few easy steps. Firstly, gather together every laptop, desktop computer, tablet and smartphone that lives in your house. Now, you need to be strong – work out which devices are past their use-by date and which need to be spring cleaned.

If it is finally time to part ways with your first iPad or the old family desktop, make sure any important documents or holiday photos are backed up in a few places (on another computer, an external hard drive AND in cloud storage program such as Dropbox and or iCloud) so you can erase all remaining data and recycle the device with peace of mind.

But don’t forget about the devices you are keeping! Our devices play such a huge part in our day to day lives so it is inevitable that they become very cluttered. Your kids’ old school assignments, outdated apps and programs, online subscriptions and unused accounts are likely lingering on your devices.

The big problem with old accounts is that they get hacked! And they can often lead hackers to your current accounts so it’s a no-brainer to ensure the number of accounts you are using is kept to a minimum.

Once you have decided which apps and accounts you are keeping, take some time to review the latest privacy agreements and settings so you understand what data they are collecting and when they are collecting it. You might also discover that some of your apps are using far more of your data than you realised! Might be time to opt out!

2. Join your child’s digital world to build your tech cred

To truly understand the challenges and threats your children face in their digital lives, you need to know how the platforms they use work. So, join all the social media sites your kids use, download the same apps they use, and play the online games they play. The benefit? Not only will you understand how to manage privacy settings and report malicious behaviour but you will quickly get a real insight into the language and culture that is a big part of your child’s life. And you will also develop some ‘tech cred’ which means your kids will be far more likely to come to you with any issues or problems they face online if they know you’ll understand what they are talking about.

3. Encourage open dialogue

Ensuring that your kids know that they can speak to you about absolutely anything that is troubling them online, without you overreacting, judging or punishing them, is essential. Your children are far more likely to confide in you about issues like cyberbullying or being hacked if they know you won’t take away their devices to cut off the Wi-fi! I highly recommend developing an open, two-way dialogue in the home about cyber-safety while regularly reassuring your kids that you are here to help.

Transcript

Silvia: As an unperfect parent, I find it really hard to get the whole online thing right for my kids. Yes, I’m guilty of letting them use devices, they have some exposure, but how much is safe? So this week we spoke to Alex Merton-McCann cyber mum and online consumer safety expert from McAfee.

Mark: Thanks for joining us here on the Unperfect Parent Podcast.

Alex: Yes, look, no problem at all. Happy to be here.

Mark: So just wondering, what’s your role? You’ve got a role as a cyber mum. What does that involve?

Alex: Yes. Well look, I am lucky enough to have this role. I work for a company called McAfee Internet Security Specialist and I am their Australian cyber mum, which means that my job is to educate parents and families about how to best keep their kids safe online. And I suppose, in many ways, it’s an extension of my life because I am lucky enough to have four lovely sons. Very much the life I live everyday with my boys. So, my job is to share some intel, share some research, and just making sure it’s a little bit easier for parents.

Silvia: So how do you actually become a cyber mum? Was that your experience as a mother that led you into this particular job?

Alex: Absolutely. I have worked in the technology arena in the communications role prior to this. It is very much a natural extension I suppose just when it comes to my boys, and my boys are now teenagers and young adults. We’ve been doing this for a long time and would leave the highs and the lows and the mistakes and the wins, which is very much—meaning, I have to share that perspective and my background’s in tech so it actually looks really well.

Mark: Yes, that sounds cool. Four boys must keep you pretty busy. (laughs)

Alex: Yes, Mark. And it is so very messy. Let me tell you, the chaos, then it’s mess and there’s food… It is full on but you know, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Mark: Oh, excellent. We’ve got three kids between us. We’ve got two 10-year-olds and a seven-year-old, so we’re not quite at that teenage stage yet. Although, I think our 10-year-olds are sort of (laughs) acting like teenagers as well.

Silvia: And that’s a boy and a girl.

Mark: Yes.

Alex: That can often be the case. Wise beyond their year, some of them.

Mark: (laughs)That’s right.

Silvia: So, since we’re talking about boys… So you’re a mom to four boys, and Mark and I have three kids, two boys and a girl. How does gender come in to this conversation? Safety issues different for boys and girls in the cyberspace?

Alex: Absolutely, they can be. Definitely. I mean, I think if we look just really quickly at something called “Image Based Abuse” for example. Girls are very much often the victim of a situation like that, whereas boys are not. I mean, it’s not always that way but there’s the stats (statistics) actually show that more girls have respective buyer than boys. So that’s an example where there is different gender roles. And I think, if we all have different ways of communicating as well, girls probably prefer more sort of social media than messaging. There are definitely nuances between girls and boys but there are also some absolutely generic, or not just generic but rules that all parents can apply, whether you have boys or girls that will actually hold you in great stead.

Mark: That leads us on to… I guess, one of the main things I wanted to ask you about is what are the main things we need to be aware of as parents in terms of protecting our kids online?

Alex: There’s actually quite a long list of concerns parents had when they’re thinking about their kids being online.

Silvia: Where do we start? (laughs)

Alex: Yes, particularly as they entered those teenage years. They can be very, very concerned. I mean, I think probably the top one that parents… would probably be cyber bullying. Probably quickly followed by other skills of online predators. Gaming, or basically too much gaming is also a big concern by parents as well. So, I would say they are top picks. There is definitely more, but they, in my experience would be at least in the top three. The cyber bullying definitely being number one.

Silvia: Does it happen on social media platforms? Those that saw your Instagram, then your messenger… Is that where our attention should be focused on?

Alex: On any online platforms? Yes, absolutely. They are on messenger, our social media platform, even by email, cyber bullying can occur. The sad reality is that instability or bad behavior can be offline and also online. So, I think our job as parents is basically to be proactive in how we can prepare our kids in offline so that when they’re online, they’ve got the resilience and they’ve got the ability to be able to navigate some of these tricky issues. Because unfortunately, it’s not going to go away. It’s just how we educate our kids to cope with some of these challenges, needs, risks and stresses.

Mark: I just wanted to follow up with you on the topic of the social media platforms. Are there any guidelines, are there any laws around what age kids need to be before they’re allowed to access those platforms?

Alex: There is, actually. Most social media platforms require a participant to be 13 years and that’s actually because of the US legislation. The acronym is COPPA, the Child Protection Legislation Bill. And basically, that means any social media platforms operate in the US needs to actually also abide by these rules. So therefore, the fallout internationally is as it is. Thirteen is also a good age setting legislation in the US, but thirteen is also quite a good age. Because you know, there is that cost where you would have hoped that as a parent you’ve done some good homework and you need to sort of loosen the leash a little bit and let them have a little bit of freedom. So, it’s not a bad age if they’re well educated.

Mark: Okay. So, in your personal experience with the four boys that are in the teenage years now, what’s your experience been in terms of… have you had to limit their access or stop them from getting onto platforms or you know, how do you work in your household in terms of online access to social platforms and gaming and things like that?

Alex: Great question. My oldest son is now 22. So, when I started this journey, my boys were 11 and 12. And they were really keen to get on Facebook, my kids actually before they came cyber entrepreneurs. And I didn’t know much about Facebook but I knew it existed. I hadn’t really yet put my tone or what and said, “Yeah, go for it. No problem. You’re fine. Fine.” I mean, how ridiculous was that, you know? I just had my head in the sand and as a lone parent too. The life with feeding small children and I just really hadn’t done my hard work so I was like, “yes, no problem, go off when you go”. That was for my eldest son and then again for my second son. Now look, we did not— Luckily, should we have any big issues, we were lucky enough to escape it but I haven’t done any of my–

Silvia: Sorry, Alex.

Alex: Sure.

Silvia: Did you have a light bulb moment saying, “Oh, I haven’t done my education, but now it’s the time.” Was there a particular moment that triggered that?

Alex: I think it’s really when I actually got my job to be honest. And I was privy to a lot more research and I’d done a lot more homework, and I really got myself out of my head out of the stand and went to brush it out of my nose and I thought, “Right, we need to shake things up around here. We need to put some boundaries in place.” Now, it’s often hard once the horse has bolted to be able to bring it back. So, what I did is… With my oldest two, they were on before they are thirteen. But then my third son, interestingly, he just got to thirteen. He just wasn’t that interested. When he got to that thirteen, you have to be, “You know what? Let me set you up. Let’s take some time, make a cup of tea, sit down together and let’s set you up on Facebook.” And so, I proactively managed to do that with him. So, we put all the privacy settings in place. I was actually able to guide him through that process. And he also had a couple of years as the benefit of my cyber mum experience so he had the family know the online venture that we do around the Spaghetti Bolognese at dinner. So, he was far more knowledgeable than my eldest two kids. So that’s how I managed the third one. The fourth one, who in every family is always the one that’s wiser than their years, I made him wait until he was 13 and that was agonizing. That was absolutely agonizing.

(laughter)

Alex: Because he’s currently 16 going on 25 but he was probably more the mature out of my four kids. But no. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. We’re waiting until you’re thirteen. So we did and that was hard, but I’m really glad I did. And have we had issues online? Yes, my boys all had issues. So far, we had an online hate and abuse sweep. We’ve had a little bit of it, but we haven’t experienced the dips that I know other families that have with their children. The biggest issue that my boys have had online were when they buying things off eBay and Gumtree and they’ve had a scammer trying, you know, keep them up to send things before money’s being deposited. That’s actually been a really big thing. Or they’ve had friend requests from strangers, which they know to quickly delete that. But they’re not perfect. They would mistakes like every other batch of young people.

Mark: As part of the conversation, should parents sort of be saying to their kids, “Well, look, I’m going to be with you on your device and helping you navigate this.” Is that part of the way forward or…?

Alex: Mark, it’s such a tricky one. And I think that every parent knows what their child needs. I’m not going to preach that there’s only one way here. I think that– Just putting that question to the side for a minute. The most important thing that you can do as the parent is actually keep the lines of communication with your children about their digital life open. I think that is essential because I think they need to know that they can come to you with anything and you’re not going to over react. Yes, you’re going to be concerned but you’re not going to punish them by revoking access to the online world, you know, by turning off the Wi-Fi or taking their mobile off them. That is really, really important. They know come what may, you are there for them. Because you know what, there are going to be conflicts. Things get a little bit crappy online. There’s no doubt about that. But they know that they can come to you. And you know what, you may not have the answers but you’ll find them or you’ll put them in touch with someone who can or you’ll workshop it and find a solution. For that to me is the number one thing. I just actually can’t emphasize that enough. The other thing I would actually just have to say to parents, and look I was there, is that you need to spend some time understanding your child’s online world. And a lot of us do have our head in the sand for various reasons. They have a baby or have a work, looking after elderly parents as well as pressure of the young kids, but understanding what social media platforms your kids are on. So whatever they’re on— they’re on Instagram, they’re on Twitter, they’re on Tumblr, they’re on Facebook and whatever, join it. And whatever games they play, please also get online and understand how they work. Because your couple of minutes from that, you will understand how they can manage privacy settings, how they can block people without any issues. You’ll also understand I suppose a lot of these social media platforms have. But the other thing which I think is really important is that you will establish what I refer to with parents as “tech grid”. Now, we’re never going to be as up to date as our kids. That’s a given. But if they know that we know what some of these social media platforms they are on or they are playing this new budgie game and… “Oh my gosh, mum knows about that app! Oh, I just have a leash on the way for that.” You know, you might look a little bit conversation during dinner, “Clever mum, she knows what’s going on” Then the chances of them coming to you when they have a problem is, I can’t say guarantee but is very much increased. And that’s what you want to do because we’ve got to acknowledge that it’s going to be tricky online. There are going to be challenges, but you want to know that your child will come to you when there is an issue. That is, I think, the goal of the digital parents. I really do.

Mark: Yes.

Silvia: I think that’s a really good tip and I think a lot of us… I mean, our generation have not grown up with social media and all these online possibilities in having to actually be there, you know, those social media platforms and gaming platforms. It’s something that really takes us out of our comfort zone but I guess that’s an excellent tip for parents.

Alex: Yes, no, absolutely.

Silvia: So, this week I believe is National Scam Awareness Week, is that right?

Alex: Yes, it is. Absolutely.

Silvia: So, in terms of scams, are there any particular scams that are happening at the moment?

Alex: There is a lot of scams happening. Research shows that I think by the end of 2019 we would lose a whopping half a billion dollars in online scams. In scams rather, so not just online scams. In scams. And I believe that this time last year that figure was about a hundred billion dollars. So, there is definitely a lot more activity going on. My take on this, you get there’s a lot of different scams and scams are bold and scams change and a lot of them say, “Oh, you know, he’s not smart enough to get involved in scams you know” I’ve got a…

Silvia: Oh, no.

Alex: …broadly or “I know how these happen”. Scammers are very, very, very clever people. They put a lot of effort into actually trying to work out our weak spots and hone in on those. If you look specifically at the romance scams that are doing the rounds. There’s a new love scam I suppose. I know it might not relevant to children, but I might just talk about that quickly.

Silvia: Definitely.

Mark: Yes.

Alex: Because it could affect some of the parents who are actually using these websites. So, we’ve seen of the common love scams, the traditional one where we all know about their victims are tricked into transferring large sums of money to their online lovers. The new wave of romance scams are actually tricking their online partners into illegally relaying stolen funds. So, basically holding funds that their online lover have acquired through illegal means. And there are stories that have popped on the round, the LGBT in particular who’ve actually been caught by this for money laundering. There was a case recently, a lady from Queensland, she’s actually juked by her online lover into laundering $6 million of stolen money and the notes to her. You know it can happen. It can really happen. And I think when we just look specifically at these online romance scammers, they hone in on people who may appear vulnerable. I think it began with the day… A lot of experts will say that smart people can get caught because a lot of them has just craved that sense of connection. So, we may be very lonely. We may be working full time and lots of kids but, you know, without a partner. We joined a dating app and we found someone that takes an interest in us. It’s human emotion to want to feel connected as you want to feel validated, and you can see how a relationship connects few. It can happen to anyone. There’s a couple of things that I recommend people look out for in that situation. I think that when we met something from a dating site, it’s all going extremely well or pretty quickly suggest taking the conversation offline, off the dating site onto WhatsApp or Messenger, be alarmed with those whose stuttering. That would be the number one. The number two thing I would suggest is actually not sending any money. I mean…

(laughter)

Alex: …pretty quite often the scammers go, “Oh, I want that, yes” then lots are getting money. And I know that sounds like I’m stating the bleeding obvious. I think these online lovers have very good voice and they always sing beautiful phrases, and everyone’s feeling good and lucks in totem, they don’t think of even lying. But the money comes in and people do get sucked into that. Again, I’m not being so frantic because we’re all human. But that should take me a very, very, very, very big red flag. And it’s the love language that’s happening very fast as well again, you know. You’ve only been talking to this person for a matter of days and were already in love with you. You know that sounds flattering but it’s probably not real. So again, something else to look out for.

Mark: I kind of think… How do you deal with other people that you might think are involved in a scam? Because it can be quite a… I think from what I’ve seen, it can be quite a touchy sort of area because if someone gets deluded into one of these scams, they’re really in that sort of fantasy world that this person’s set up. And I believe it could be quite hard to sort of bring them out of that and they could get quite defensive if you’re saying it sounds like a scam or blah, blah, blah. Any tips for how to help someone who you think may be getting scammed in that way?

Alex: That’s certainly one of the worst nightmares, isn’t it? A challenge for a friend who’s just blinkered by it. They’ve got that lot, big thing and their love eyes on and they can’t see past it. Look, I just think don’t give up on them. Just continue to have the conversation. At the end of the day, you can only do what you can do. You can communicate with as best you can and you can share your concerns and your fears. You have to do whatever you can. How like those other people who also communicate with message if you feel like you’re not getting through. But look at the hard one Mark, because you don’t want to see it going through, your parent being taken advantage of. But at the end of the day, you can only do what you can do.

Mark: Yes.When I think of these kinds of scams, I think of my parents who obviously being the age that they are, they’re less sort of internet savvy and haven’t been maybe quite as exposed to this (laughs) as you know, we’re getting increasingly exposed to. But also, what I haven’t thought about so much but now this conversation’s sparking my mind is, were there any particular scams that target children? Have you seen anything that’s targeting children within Australia?

Alex: Specifically? Nothing that I can recall at the moment. But the one thing I have experienced with my children is that my boys love to buy and sell things online. It’s a real, a real thing they’ve got going… Actually, Gumtree is the platform of their choice. But what we are seeing… To be honest, every time, over the last couple of years that they have put something up on sale, they have every single time clearly been approached by scammer. And I think that’s really interesting because a lot of kids, particularly teenagers, buy and sell things online. One of my boys is an absolute shoe fiend. Trades shoes online. Or there’s Xbox game, you know, there’s little models as well and quite a bit past time for my children but every single time about that month… And I’m talking about that 2015, it’s changed since 2018, there was always a scammer that bails them up. What happens there is, say for example, I want to sell a pair of shoes and you know your price on it but you know you’re going to be working down at something. You might go for 200 bucks. You’d rather have $200 on it. He’s going to wait out for genuine people who found a hundred fifty, a hundred, we’d take a hundred or the rest of it. Then someone comes along and says, “Yes, happy to offer you $200. Here’s my address, I will deposit the funds immediately.” Okay? So, you think, “Oh my God. All right! I’m going to get $200 for my shoes! They’re really not worth it but what the hell, I’ll take it. Go for it!”

(laughter)

Alex: And then, what happens is that the money doesn’t come through. We’ve been doing this a long time now. So, the rule in the house, we should wait to see the funds in the account. What did they use? Paypal or direct debit? And every time, the money doesn’t come through. Recently one of my boys sold an old laptop online and he has for the cost of that someone from her… It’s a long-winded story about… Oh my goodness me. From Australia then he’s found something for the daughter and all of a sudden, the daughter had to go to Russia because she has to go there for a very important business. And would he mind sending it directly to Russia and he’ll add another $150 onto this very high asking price. And he said, “Yes, though as long as you’re willing to fund the receipt, we will be able to send this onto that country. But then, what happened was he proceeded to get, I would say five to ten very aggressive messages. “Send at once!” “What are you doing?” “Are you stupid? Please send it at once!” So, this scammer is bearing on my son. And we actually found a quantity time (laughs) you know, we did it before. He’s like, “He was never going to get the laptop.” It’s just a very interesting form but like you’ve mentioned before, Mark. If my parents or your parents were doing something like that online and they didn’t have the smarts or the know-how to be able to make those informed decisions, that can end very badly. You know, they’d be sending the laptop and they’d be concerned by the tone of these messages. So that is I think, something that a lot of parents need to be talking to their teenagers about because it’s not uncommon for kids to buy and sell things online now. So, that’s definitely a scam to look out for.

Mark: Yes, it sounds like your kids are quite entrepreneurial then.

Alex: Well, yes, no. (laughs) They are actually. They are. They got big dream, massive dreams.

Mark: That’s great. I just have one more thing I wanted to touch on. I guess, earlier we were talking about social media and really sort of focused on social media, but certainly I think one of the ways that kids really communicate these days is through online games. So, out of our three kids, my 10-year-old boy, he really got into Fortnite for a while (laughs) as did most of the country because of it. I think I let him try out the voice chat once or twice and then I sort of heard some of the chat that was going on and I quickly stopped that! I guess just generally, do you have any comments about what you see in terms of cyber security…

Silvia: Popular games.

Mark: … around the popular games? You know, Fortnite or we hear about, I don’t think our kidsare into it too much… We hear about Roblox and obviously Minecraft has been huge for a long time.

Alex: Absolutely. I think there are a couple of things that are similar to all of these game platforms like this Fortnite or Minecraft or all the latest game in the moment. I think what’s interesting… Recently, McAfee did some research last holiday and actually statistically, may make you just sort of you heart flutter a little bit, but found out that all the kids are actually spending up to four hours a day gaming, which is…

Mark: Wow. (laughs)

Alex: It’s not every child obviously, but that’s on average. That’s a lot of time in playing games. In front of games, rather. So, I think understanding as well what our kids love to spend their time in is really very important. And the bonus, one of our… There are (laughs) Some of this is one of my concern, but I think it’s important you can to decide for them and really do savor it. And that’s actually some research on the fact that gaming can actually help kids manage anxiety and depression, even reduce pain. And it can actually help socialize. Social skills for kids that are possibly isolated or need to work on those things. So, there are some benefits. But there are ones that also have some downsides… So as a team, we are really concerned about this. It’s something we need to put some message into our team. People are talking like “What do you…? What do you say?” They are afraid at the tone of Fortnite and you know, their whole life socializing. And it’s often hard, like I’ve mentioned before, when the horse has bolted and things get out of control, they are hard to get it back and it’s hard not to totally accept that. Totally accept that conversation behind gaming. Teenagers can just be (laughs) totally… sorry, how this thing can be social but can be very emotional. It can be very, very powerful because the games these days are designed to get our children very regularly to “detonate”. So they love it, they feel comfortable, they approve it. So, extracting them from it and trying to put rules in place is really hard.

Mark: Yes, I mean I think both the social platforms and the gaming platforms, they’re just getting better and better at making them addictive so that people don’t want to get off them. So yes, we’ve got our work cut out for us.

Alex: Absolutely. They call it “the reward loop” actually. The reward loops, you know, keeps you coming back for more.

Mark: Yes. And you think about the sort of resources these companies have to put into keeping us on their platforms. It’s quite a headwind there, I would guess. But I guess every generation, parents have had their own things to deal with. (laughs)

Alex: Absolutely. This is a big one for us.

Mark: We’re mindful of your time so we might start wrapping things up there. Alex, do you have any other last words for parents before we close off?

Alex: One thing I think you could put onto your to do list for your annual spring clean is actually looking at working to the wire. Looking at your spam and do your wire. Giving that a bit of a spring clean is actually a really good thing I think to add on your to do list. If you think about how long we’ve all been online for on all the apps and all the social media platforms and new platforms they’re subscribed to, you have… I use to spend pretty extensively across the internet. So hopefully, for your time, I think to absolutely clean it up is actually really important because the more information about us online increased the chance that a cybercriminal honing on that and could possibly steal our identity, which we commonly call “identity theft”. If you’re the head of the family or the mother or the father who takes charge of tech things, then I think it’s a really important thing to add to your to do list. I really do. So, clean it up, your devices.

Mark: Yes. That’s a great tip. (laughs) There’s quite a lot of spring cleaning that I think we could do. It becomes hard to remember exactly what you’ve got out there sometimes, yes.

Alex: I agree. For talking about this with parents, if you were to actually get every single device of every single family member going online like on the pieces of puzzle, that’s going to be horrifying, how much money you spent. (laughs) I’m happy that they are… maybe we stopped when we bought one of those HPs. But how many of these devices do you still need? And you do know you get rid of them, which we sure probably do when the time with flash. Making sure that the devices have been completely clean so there’s no identifying information or personal information about on the devices is really important. I think that’s something I would suggest to parents if it’s something we would be able to do. The other thing I would suggest is ensuring that our machines, the ones that we decide to keep out of that, in part, are actually clean. And what I mean by cleaning, making sure all the software’s up to date, the bars are all up to date, because a lot of vulnerabilities and malwares sort of last a week. Holding them on, lasts weeks. Actually, often making sure you have updated software. You could start with that. So that’s something else. Possibly just a plan, but won’t they, you know, hopefully in time and… If you don’t want them using your app, delete it. If you’re not going to use the social media platform, get rid of it. So don’t turn on working out what you need to… When you really use, can’t let help you don’t need, is a really important part of keeping your online information.

Mark: Great tips. Thanks, Alex. Last thing before we go, if people would like to see more about what you do or follow your work online, is there any way we can direct them? I guess speaking of social media platforms, we can direct people to read more about what you do and follow you.

Alex: Absolutely, yes, you know me so well already. I have a Facebook page, Cybermum AU, you put that into Facebook and you’ll find me. I’m also on twitter and I also do have a blog, which is internet gaming relatively regularly. We follow the latest tips in the chain and what’s going on. The blog is a little bit harder to find but if you would have type in McAfee Cybermum AU then Alex, I guarantee you’ll find it.

Mark: Okay, awesome. Well, thanks for talking to us today.

Alex: Thank you so much.

Silvia: Thank you, Alex.

Mark: Thanks.

Alex: No, thank you so much. It’s been lovely to see you guys, and have a great day.

Mark: Yes, you too. Thanks a lot. Bye!